[mikel]

I understand the knee jerk reaction to increased crime but does anybody really believe the answer is MORE guns?

[JuanSoler]

The question is not if we need more guns in Mexico but who is holding them.

[maxmo]

I don’t like guns but I believe everybody who want a gun and have no criminal record should be okay. All criminals have guns and this law will not change that fact.

[mikel]

But why risk falling into the same problems as we have up here in the states?

[bajajeepers]

I have some mixed feelings on this but reading the article it doesn’t appear this would make fully automatic AR-15’s legal for purchase.

[BajaGringo]

I got a lot of PM’s over this one and those disagreeing with this proposal seemed to mostly fall along the lines of not wanting to make Mexico another USA with everybody owning a gun.

My response to each and every one of them was:

There are LOTS and LOTS of guns already here in Mexico, just like the USA but you know what’s different?

1. In the USA 99.9% of the guns are owned by law abiding citizens but in Mexico, 99.9% of the guns are owned by criminals.

2. In the USA the homicide rate is 4.96 people per 100,000 and in Mexico it’s 29.07 people per 100,000 – nearly 6 times higher.

3. In the USA the police are highly trained, well paid and difficult to corrupt but in Mexico the police are poorly trained, poorly paid and quite easy to corrupt.

4. In the USA, kids have easy access to guns and a few of the more troubled ones go to their schools and shoot their classmates. In Mexico, kids have easy access to organized crime and a few of the more troubled ones join a cartel and get their own AR-15 to shoot at other cartels, they don’t go to their schools and shoot their classmates.

5. In the USA, police catch the criminals, arrest them, jail them and the judges send them to prison for long sentences, especially repeat offenders. In Mexico the police are slow to respond, often already paid off by the criminals and even if they do arrest them, under the new criminal justice system here pushed through by the Human Rights organizations, criminals are back out on the streets within hours and if they are charged, judges are easily bought off for minimum or even no prison sentences.

[bajajeepers]

Regrettably, those are actually valid points to which I honestly cannot give you a good counter argument except that I wish there were a lot less guns on BOTH sides of the border

[BajaGringo]

Unless there is some magic new law we can pass here in Mexico to quickly reduce the number of guns down here and ESPECIALLY taking them out of the hands of criminals as well as figure out a way to make the police and criminal justice system provide better security for the people here in Mexico, the only answer I see possible is to allow law abiding people to arm themselves in self defense.

On Facebook I got some grief from people who either don’t live in Mexico and spend most of their time down here in the heavily policed tourist areas or live in walled off Gringo communities but they seem to forget (or not care) what it’s like for the majority of hard working people living outside of those walled off Gringo communities who have to face this situation everyday.

I wish it weren’t so but I haven’t seen one single argument given by any of those who disagree with this proposal to show me a practical way to change the current situation we are facing.

Believe me, I am all ears.

[bajabill]

Ouch! Thanks for some perspective, I’m going to think about this one.

[JuanSoler]

Exactly right.

[laguera]

A big part of me want to say no but I understand how unbalanced the security situation is in my country. I believe it is time for another revolution because I don’t see any way to fix the problems with the political system today.

[ralph]

I suspect that those who have been victim of a burglary (especially while they are home) or a violent crime will have pretty strong feeling s on this issue.

[bajabill]

For sure. When it becomes personal you forget about politics and self preservation takes over.

[BajaGringo]

It’s not theft so much – “stuff” can be replaced – but when you are facing a robbery situation where you likely may not live to file a police report.

[ralph]

True.

[paranewbi]

I would be inclined to advocate for personal protection allowances. I would offer that most who feel squeamish about the prevalence of firearms are led to feel that way by a lack of information availability. A few points I would offer;

A) I chuckle at media portrayals of individuals who own more than one gun and have a thousand or more rounds in their possession. Although prohibitively expensive today… I often fire over 250 rounds in an hour or so at a gun range. I may do that through one firearm or a couple of different ones at a session. To have a couple of thousand rounds of differing ammo in my safe is not unusual (Especially if I find a good deal).

B) Of the millions of firearms owned by hundreds of thousands of Women, LGBTQ community members (growing daily), Asians (growing way more than you would guess), Hispanic and Blacks (non-gang members), and elderly (amongst many more, diverse firearm owners); Why do you not hear about mass shootings being perpetrated by such? [I ask this question of many people when discussing this subject and none offer an answer]

C) Did you know that hundreds of thousands of times each year a firearm is used in protecting personal dwellings or physical well being?

D) Did you know hundreds of thousands of citizens in the USA have concealed carry permits, most of which are recognized in 42 states? Can you guess which states don’t recognize them? Look at cities with the highest crime rates for a clue 🙂

When discussing a persons personal disdain for firearms I always offer for them to just tell me and I will not present my firearm if I am near them on an occasion when their well-being is in harms way. I will abide by their request to not to and by their wife’s if she should make the same request… but I will never let their children fall in harms way if I am present, no matter what they say. I have yet to have an individual state such a request.

[BajaGringo]

I have always owned a gun and I suppose I define “gun nuts” as those who want absolutely no control or oversight to their purchase and believe its their constitutional right to possess any type or size of weapon; 50 caliber sniper rifle, machine gun, hand grenade launchers and probably a cruise missile if they could figure out how to set up and control its rail launcher from their back yard bunker.

Life events have shown me how valuable it can be to have a firearm at your reach when things go south but I do believe there should be a registration system and mandatory background checks first. However .38 caliber is simply too small as per the current limit here in Mexico, especially when most perps are carrying a 9mm.

Many want to use their arguments against guns from the U.S. down here in Mexico and they simply don’t apply. It’s a completely different ball game down here with a completely different set of rules and players.

Most Mexicans fully understand that and many American fail to, at their own peril.

I know first hand.

[blitzer]

@paranewbi Completely agree with you and hope Mexico does expand gun ownership rights for abiding families. There is a different breed of criminals today and I don’t want to have to wait on the police to respond to a 911 call to protect my family and my home.

[paranewbi]

Yep… training, training, training

During the initial Covid onset, the gun stores sold out of everything fast! They closed the ranges because of Covid. I was in the gun shop I patronize during that time and the staff was organizing clandestine, one day a week, classes for all the new first time firearm owners. They were alarmed at the number of first timers and the potential for disaster at their ignorance.

I have traveled over 150,000 miles in Central America and Mexico since the mid-70’s. My greatest fear has not been provoked by anything around me as much as someone discovering a stray load (ammo) floating around my RV or car!

I think there should be a forum started for hair raising stories of things that have happened to anyone during their travels, oh my!

[blitzer]

It’s not the norm but at times I have to carry what I consider a lot of cash with me on my job and on those days I keep my Glock wedged in between my seat and the center console of my truck. One weekend we made a last minute weekend trip to Ensenada with friends and while waiting in line at the military revision before the last toll booth I panicked, suddenly remembering I had left my gun wedged down alongside the seat. I started to sweat but I didn’t say anything to my wife or friends as I thought it would be better if they looked calm.

Fortunately we were waved through and I never told them that entire weekend as I didn’t want to hear all the lecturing but I never forgot that. Now, I always remember to check my truck from top to bottom when we go to Mexico.

[six-one-niner]

If you are in that same situation again and the soldier tells you he going to search your car, tell him about the gun before he go into your car. You may get detained and probably won’t get your gun back but you have better chances of going home the next day than if you say nothing and they find it with searching.

[paranewbi]

Now see Blitzer… That’s one of those kind of stories for a ‘What happened to me in Baja’ forum of those hair raising experiences.

[six-one-niner]

Oh and I have a few to tell myself! So what say you @BajaGringo – any chance of creating that forum?

[JuanSoler]

I’ll send Ron a PM and see what he thinks.

[blitzer]

Ron is BajaGringo?

[JuanSoler]

Ron Gomez Hoff (on Facebook) = BajaGringo

[blitzer]

OK, now I know who he is

[paranewbi]

Although I have had plenty of hair raising experiences in Mexico and Central America over the fifty plus years I have been traveling there… I would think this kind of forum should not be construed as a ‘do not go’ type of advocacy. Some might be detoured by what I have encountered but the memories of positive experiences heavily outnumber the few that have not been so enticing. Maybe a requirement to include a ‘even so I keep going’ spirit to the content?

[mikel]

That sounds about right. Most of us have had at least one or two such experiences while abroad and for most of us, we just store it away to help remember to avoid repeating that experience.